Interchangeable optics in the phone | Bokeh mining experiments



Rep: (16)
Good day to all.
Not so long ago I unexpectedly discovered the fact that the phones are able to take pictures and do it very well. So good that they can even be used for creativity. Small matrix of course impose their own restrictions, but the results are very fit. Unfortunately I spoiled my older cameras soul could not put up with quite a terrible constraint - with optics. The phones have long been put only a wide-angle optics, and even with a focal about 28mm (in terms of equivalent 24h36mm frame). Me these lenses never liked - no normal person to remove or separate the background nicely.
Not only are these 28mm lenses considered a “normal” lens, they are also called longer telephoto lenses. It's funny to hear actually.
Therefore, the soul decided to inquire. And I found out that modern matrices in phones are by and large similar in size to an 8mm movie frame.
These are the same amateur 2x8 or Super8 movie cameras. And in the world of these movie cameras, there are absolutely delicious and interesting lenses. It's time to act!

For experiments, we took the old Ergo SmartTab 3G 4.5 device with a camera about 5 megapixels. Old, cheap and unnecessary. He understands very simply, spare parts can be found for a penny - an ideal candidate.
A native lens with a built-in IR filter, a protective glass of the camera was removed from the camera module and thus we got a bare matrix. Everything remained fully operational, only the lens will now need to attach your own.

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They became the projection N-2 18 / 1.4. According to his characteristics, he promised to be at least curious thanks to aperture 1.4 and a longer focal length - as much as 18mm (the equivalent of 135mm for a 24x36 frame). It was already such a normal telephoto.

However, projection lenses have their own characteristics:
- lack of a diaphragm node (they simply do not need it)
- lack of a focusing unit (usually the lens simply moves inside its mount in the movie projector)

But this is not a barrier. You can always focus with your feet and hands :)
And the diaphragm is for wimps.
The lens was mounted on a platform with a camera hole and secured with plasticine. Yes, only profane people do this, but for preliminary tests this is enough.
Unless the focusing distance turned out to be small - about half a meter.
After trying on this projector, we got good results.

Despite a simple design (only 4 lenses), the lens produces good sharpness.
Although, of course, there is a soft effect due to the high aperture (this is the hobby of projectors, for which I love them). But this software is very nice (especially in color). Unless it's difficult to get into the depth of field - without the focus of picking on the screen, it is visually poorly visible and easy to miss.
Also, because of the poorly blackened lens ends, it is also commonplace for projectors to do so, the contrast is so-so.
In general, the idea of ​​using it to shoot something large-scale is very good.
The next step is to make normal fasteners and a focusing unit for shooting at greater distances.

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Post has been edited10111 - 12.03.18, 23:03



Rep: (54)
* 10111,
It seems to me that the use of overhead macro lenses will be a more logical direction in mobilography. It turns out quite an interesting result, and the cost is cheap.
https: //www.flickr.com...6574/with/25818004117/



Rep: (16)
Any nozzle is only a half measure, as they say.
Macro is very simple to make - any positive lens will do. But this quickly bothers.



Rep: (54)
10111 @ 15.03.18, 17:18 *
Any nozzle is only a half measure, as they say.

Half measure, not half measure, but in your bokeh shots you got such-and-such. It’s easier to do software than to conduct similar experiments :) In fact, such "bokeh" now allows you to get cameras of any more or less decent smartphone.

Post has been editedNihiluum - 15.03.18, 19:08



Rep: (16)
* Nihiluum,
I do not agree.
The blur depends solely on the lens.
Softina drawing optics do not fundamentally. Some ersatz-likeness is possible. But not more.



Rep: (54)
10111 @ 15.03.18, 19:14 *
Softina drawing optics do not fundamentally

Are we talking about bokeh as a blur phenomenon, or is it exactly the lens design that is fundamentally important for you? :)



Rep: (16)
* Nihiluum,
First, bokeh is part of the optics drawing. For different optics, it is different.
Secondly, nobody removes bokeh in itself. This is only an auxiliary element.



Rep: (54)
10111 @ 15.03.18, 19:36 *
First, bokeh is part of the optics drawing. For different optics, it is different.
Secondly, nobody removes bokeh in itself. This is only an auxiliary element.

The drawing can also be obtained in a soft way; for this, many applications have already been written. One of them is Focos. For mobilography, this is enough with the head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fPlcmPB3u8
For lovers of perversion, there is another direction - camera action, where it is possible to replace the staff with another lens from macro to body.
For all other lovers of beauty, there are system cameras :)



Rep: (16)
* Nihiluum,
Alas, the program will not make you a drawing. I already wrote above - he will make a parody of him.
Drawing is the same soft effect in my examples that the program will not do. These are various aberrations and a combination of other things.
The program will make blurry-indefinable. And no more. Moreover, with errors - we all know how crookedly blurred hair.
I am already silent about the fact that blur is different for different lenses, different focal lengths.



Rep: (54)
10111 @ 15.03.18, 19:59 *
I already wrote above - he will make a parody of him.

within a smartphone, such a result will be enough
10111 @ 15.03.18, 19:59 *
Drawing is the same soft effect in my examples that the program will not do.

I don’t know what result you plan to achieve with such experiments, but so far the result is completely nonexistent (except for the first photo). In any case, it will be interesting to see :)



Rep: (16)
* Nihiluum,
My result in the first place is interchangeable aperture telephoto optics.
The bokeh is secondary and I didn’t even take it, except for the first photo. It was more important to understand the capabilities of the lens.



Rep: (4)
10111 @ 12.03.18, 20:58 *
The lens was mounted on a platform with a camera hole and secured with plasticine.

But with the help of plasticine, you can easily make a lens with a tilt (tilt), a couple of years ago I made a homemade tilt shift, but as a result I shot a little on it.
When I had the first digital camera (a compact with a fairly large 2/3 "matrix), then after several years I also wanted to have replaceable optics on it, and even found similar experiments on the Internet. But macro lenses, widths and tele-converters were quite diverse and the compact was enough for another year ... And then I bought a DSLR and started to go broke on optics ...
The very fact of a telephone with interchangeable optics is interesting, and manufacturers could easily implement it in phones and action cameras (they do not even have focus settings), but for some reason no one does it.
Although instead of a cell phone I would choose a small Nikon 1 mirrorless mirror, there is also a small matrix, but it is not bad and the main thing is to increase the focus area, which is very important for high-aperture optics.



Rep: (16)
* tapochek_123,
Tilt more than enough, but the plane is not very)
Now I switched to CCTV optics - for surveillance cameras mainly.
Just for mobile matrices there are a lot of interesting options, including fast aperture zooms and super-fast fixes.
Yes, and standard fasteners of any kind.

Post has been edited10111 - 21.03.18, 13:36



Rep: (4)
Nihiluum @ 03/15/18, 16:58*
It’s easier to do software than to conduct such experiments.

If you have a ready-made good photo, then of course you can spend time and separate the object from the background. But is it not necessary that the photo consists of only two parts, a blurred background and a sharp object? There can be a smooth transition into the blur zone, or there are a lot of sharp objects, for example, flowers in the field. Some of the colors will fall into the border of sharpness, and the foreground and background will gradually blur more and more.
Even if you fold the bokeh pattern and the blur itself, then the whole fact of interchangeable optics greatly expands the possibilities. Starting from macro, and ending with a huge approximation. How are things with mobile phone zoom? Almost nothing, a maximum of a couple of times, or several lenses with different focal lengths, but here it’s easy to get focal lengths of 250-500mm and higher.



Rep: (54)
Tapochek_123 @ 03.24.2018, 18:51*
...
If you have a ready-made good photo, then of course you can spend time and separate the object from the background. But is it not necessary that the photo consists of only two parts, a blurred background and a sharp object? There can be a smooth transition into the blur zone, or there are a lot of sharp objects, for example, flowers in the field. Some of the colors will fall into the border of sharpness, and the foreground and background will gradually blur more and more.
Even if you fold the bokeh pattern and the blur itself, then the whole fact of interchangeable optics greatly expands the possibilities. Starting from macro, and ending with a huge approximation. How are things with mobile phone zoom? Almost nothing, a maximum of a couple of times, or several lenses with different focal lengths, but here it’s easy to get focal lengths of 250-500mm and higher.

For smartphones now there is a supermacro, telescopes, fish, just shirik, etc.: hooked on with a clip and you're done. Some companies even make covers with interchangeable lenses. These devices really expand the capabilities of a mobile camera without interfering with the hardware, and are relatively inexpensive.

Post has been editedNihiluum - 24.03.18, 21:27



Rep: (4)
Nihiluum @ 03/24/18, 19:26*
For smartphones now there is a supermacro, telescopes, fish, just shirik, etc.

I know that I have come this way on the ancient digital compact. If we talk about an expensive smartphone, I agree that these attachment lenses are easier and safer. Leaks are not broken, autofocus remains working. I really don’t know how cheap the quality is, but when I went over for a camera, most of the lenses usually washed and gave strong HA. Exceptions were relatives from Nikon, Olympus, etc. With macro lenses, it’s much easier, you can even pick it up from the old lens, but there was trouble with the widths.



Rep: (54)
Tapochek_123 @ 03.24.2018, 23:08*
...
I know that I have come this way on the ancient digital compact. If we talk about an expensive smartphone, I agree that these attachment lenses are easier and safer. Leaks are not broken, autofocus remains working. I really don’t know how cheap the quality is, but when I went over for a camera, most of the lenses usually washed and gave strong HA. Exceptions were relatives from Nikon, Olympus, etc. With macro lenses, it’s much easier, you can even pick it up from the old lens, but there was trouble with the widths.

Well, what do we want from mobile cameras now? For me, this is a fixation tool and a field for experiments (a small matrix allows it) For Instagram and the web, and even for printing 10 * 15 is more than enough. For everything else, there is a BZK.



Rep: (4)
Nihiluum @ 03/25/18, 17:37*
Well, what do we want from mobile cameras now?

If to be honest, I do not want anything from mobile cameras, and I believe that today's top-end smarts (and some old) shoot very good for its class. I have a lot more complaints about the photo / video cameras than to MobilCom. Why action at 200-400ue cameras can already shoot 4K 60k / s, last year's mobile telephones are and expensive bezzerkali and camcorder does well? Sony FDR-AX700, PANASONIC GH5, Sony a6500, nor the freshest top Sony a7III not shoot 4K 60k / s. But all this is a top camera with a price tag of about 2000ue.

Post has been editedtapochek_123 - 27.03.18, 18:15



Rep: (54)
Tapochek_123 @ 03/27/18, 18:12*
Why action cameras on 200-400ue can already shoot 4K 60k / s, last year’s cell phones can, but expensive mirrorless and video cameras?

there is no real 4k there, no matter what they say. If you wait 4k-60, then only in some Sony A7S3.
PS 4k 60pfs do not set due to considerations of overheating because even the top-end canon dx1 takes off in 4k60 only 10 minutes.

Post has been editedNihiluum - 27.03.18, 18:25



Rep: (4)
Nihiluum @ 03/27/18, 16:19*
there is no real 4k there, no matter what they say.

If I understand everything correctly, then there are no real cameras either for 400ue or 4000ue, anyway there is interpolation from the matrix, and there are no real 3840 x 2160 (or 4096 x 2160) ones. But as I understand it, we are not talking about this?
I agree that a large sensor and large optics are better than a small sensor and a tiny lens both in resolution and in ISO, DD, and more.
But if there is a link (ideally with the original video and not a pinched YouTube) about comparing a conditional iPhone8 / Samsung and a mirrorless video resolution, then I would love to look.
But when comparing mirrorless cameras that write 1080p video with 4K action cameras, even cheap Chinese ones have more detail than the old mirrorless ones, and gopro6 / yi 4k + clearly have details a head taller than 1080p photo / video cameras.

Nihiluum @ 03/27/18, 16:19*
PS 4k 60pfs do not set due to considerations of overheating because even the top-end canon dx1 takes off in 4k60 only 10 minutes.

Canon EOS-1D X Mark II - Does This Overheat? I had no business with him, but if so, then this is either a jamb of engineers (which is doubtful), but rather a marketing limitation for the planned obsolescence. After all, you need to sell cameras that cost 10 times more? Starting from the EOS C700 and ending with those that are not available to us at all.
Okay, flip out the full-frame camera. What action camera, that 4K video cameras in the range up to 1500ye have matrices of about 1 / 2.3 ", only the action has 60k / s, and video cameras have either 4-30 or 1080p-60, and unfortunately there is no third.

Post has been editedtapochek_123 - 27.03.18, 20:58


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