Camera selection: budget 30.000r. Help | Nikon, Canon or something else? ..



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* Aleksandr-1,
You do not take the conversation away: D

Why shoot in raw and convert it with the default settings?
Especially for new cameras (the asker mentioned the D5600).

Post has been editedivanlabuda - 17.03.19, 11:50



Rep: (146)
and with this, I see, the questioner somehow didn’t really: "Strictly in auto mode."

Yes, perhaps in this case only a smartphone.


And the meaning of such shamanism? We get a raw file of tens of megabytes every time, additionally spend time to get the same thing that the camera gives out in jpeg?

Well, for example, you shot a photo shoot in RAW. Files that do not need extra. processing, convert to JPEG as is, and process part of the files, respectively. You will not switch between JPEG and RAW during shooting, and the result is always relatively unpredictable.

The second point is the conversion algorithm. The JPEG camera has literally fractions of a second, with the rather weak computational capabilities of the integrated processor. Therefore, the algorithm should be simple. And it is unlikely that a simple and fast algorithm with such meager computing power pulls maximum quality out of RAW ... There is simplified compression and loss of quality. Another thing is conversion to a PC, where the processing time is unlimited. Any algorithm can be used and spent as much time as is required to achieve maximum quality.

That is, even if no processing is supposed to be done at all after shooting, a better JPEG can be obtained from RAW with a higher probability. Plus, we retain the opportunity for future adjustments.

Or are you hinting at photolemur?

Most converter programs (such as Lightroom, CaptureOne, DxO Photolab) have similar functionality - at the touch of a button, auto-adjustments are performed according to the type of “artificial intelligence”, which I mentioned. You can also automatically apply distortion corrections (vignetting, chromatic aberration) for a specific camera and lens.
I have not heard about photolemur before, I’ll try for the sake of interest.



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Aleksandr-1 @ 03/17/19, 11:39*
Yes, not such a large RAV size (if you do not take the camera with a "double pixel"). At 18 MPix, RAV is 22-27 MB, and JAPEG from it for full quality is 8-18 MB.

If we are talking about a large archive, then the difference becomes significant. Canon even came up with a lightweight format - C-RAW (raw with a certain compression ratio)



Rep: (25)
Why shoot in raw and convert it with the default settings?

No reason! And what, does someone do this ??? Moreover, as I wrote, the new JEPEG cameras are very even! RAV is if: missed with exposure, difficult lighting, I want something more, there is a dofig of time.

Antony_droid @ 03/17/19, 15:06*
Files that do not need extra. processing, convert to JPEG as is, and process part of the files, respectively.

The quote must be continued, but it’s clear.
1. The hand will not rise to convert as is: there is an opportunity to fix it - I will fix it
2. Algorithms improve, God forbid, how fast. And the processor here is sharpened for processing. Only for processing. He is missing today. And even more so tomorrow.
3. From RAV JEPEG it will be better since you can take into account the difficulties and do "I see it." But ... Algorithms do not stand still.
4. Correction of distortions is available even in my "old" 650D, though native lenses, but this is 2012! Algorithms and processor capabilities do not stand still.

If we are talking about a large archive, then the difference becomes significant. Canon even came up with a lightweight format - C-RAW (raw with a certain compression ratio)

In general, it is not clear why this is C-RAW: flash drives of capacious dofig!
Now I continue to "get rid of RAV" - I process RAV in JEPEG because RAV is not a photo, it is not there, but JEPEG is it: at least look, at least print and at the same time all tip-top (after processing). And the occupied space on the hard ..., is only 1.5-2 times less. What's the difference between 150 or 250 gigs?

By the way. Kenon has such a thing as processing styles loaded into the camera. Those. if you are not satisfied with the factory settings, you can download additional. Processing styles (there are more than 150 of them) that will "raise" the shadows, muffle the Hight tones, pull out the micro-contrast and dofig what else. For example, when converting from RAV, I very often muffle Hight and raise Shadow, so there are very similar Styles that will do this hundreds of times faster. And this is the 2012 fotik! And in 2019? RAV is more and more becoming the exception, not the norm. IMHO, of course.

Post has been editedAleksandr-1 - 17.03.19, 20:19



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Aleksandr-1 @ 03/17/19, 19:59*
the new JEPEG cameras are very much! RAV is if: missed with exposure, difficult lighting, I want something more, there is a dofig of time.

In any case, you can find out if you missed or didn’t miss, you can only after fully viewing the image on the PC monitor screen. Therefore - only RAW. : thank_you:

For the “lazy" there is also a shooting mode JPEG + RAW. It saves to some extent time if processing is not needed. But then again, if you still spend time at least for auto-conversion with the default settings, the result will come out a little better than in-camera JPEG.

Option "for the lazy" N2 - in-camera conversion of RAW (in new models). We took a picture in RAW, evaluated the result, and immediately converted it to JPEG in the camera menu. Again, the issue of conversion quality remains open. :)

Aleksandr-1 @ 03/17/19, 19:59*
By the way. Kenon has such a thing as processing styles loaded into the camera.

As far as I remember, any such style can subsequently be applied to a RAW file (via the "native" DPP converter), and if you shoot directly to the camera with any style, then the opportunity to replay the photo disappears - since shooting with styles goes only in JPEG.

Aleksandr-1 @ 03/17/19, 19:59*
In general, it is not clear why this is C-RAW: flash drives of capacious dofig!

If the issue of the availability of free space on a flash drive escalates, then why not use this format. In any case, this is better than shooting just JPEG.



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* antony_droid
Some kind of confusion.

I shoot in jpeg + raw (my camera copes with this quite well, even with serial shooting). On a 16GB card, about eight hundred pictures are included, if not enough, there is a spare card.
After shooting, I merge everything onto the computer, do the initial rejection.
If the frame in jpeg is suitable - I take it, if refinement is required - I modify raw. With some dexterity of suitable jpeg from the camera, which do not require revision - noticeably more than half of the total number of suitable.
When finalizing, artificial intelligence is good, of course, but so far I have enough of my own: D

Where in this process you can apply conversion with default parameters - I can not imagine. Unless in the cell, the conversion was very miserable, but I did not encounter such ones.

As for "the result is always relatively unpredictable" - I do not understand what you mean. Explain?

Post has been editedivanlabuda - 18.03.19, 06:25



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Ivanlabuda @ 03/18/19, 06:13*
Where in this process you can apply conversion with default parameters - I can not imagine. Unless in the cell, the conversion was very miserable, but I did not encounter such ones.

When processing photos, for example, in Lightroom, the process usually looks like this in my case: importing a folder with just-shot RAW files into an editor, previewing and selectively adjusting images. After that, export to JPEG (all images from the folder at the same time). The folder with RAW is deleted.

What benefit do you get from in-camera JPEGs shot in parallel with RAW? From the point of view of saving time - no benefit, on the contrary, manually selecting images for processing and exporting or deleting each RAW file individually will take much longer.

Ivanlabuda @ 03/18/19, 06:13*
As for "the result is always relatively unpredictable" - I do not understand what you mean. Explain?

The fact that during shooting to fully appreciate the need for further refinement of the photo will not work. Only after the fact.



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* antony_droid
Yeah, now I see. This happens, if at all, to abandon the camera jpeg (or it’s not in the camera, or a matter of principle).
Antony_droid @ 03/18/19, 12:52*
during shooting to fully appreciate the need for further refinement of the photo will not work

There is no time to evaluate during shooting. It requires more or less predictable camera behavior and the absence of hard jambs with exposure / BB / ... Well, just like when shooting on film;)
Evaluation of the result - yes, after, but raw is not necessary for this - except that "generally refuse ..." - see above. It (raw) is needed for post-processing.

By the way, those rumors that inof somecamjpeg cameras are good - not at all rumors. : D

P.S. I do not urge you to abandon raw.



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Until this price, which is indicated in the topic, I personally chose the Olympus OM-D EM-10 II. And not a bit sorry. Lightweight, compact, video up to 4k. Stability on 5 axes. Photos can be downloaded immediately to the phone.
Of mirrorless cameras, probably the best option is up to 30k.



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This week will be the 2019 Photo Forum (https://photoforum.pmd-forum.ru/)
You can go and try everything with your own hands. Olympus, Nikon, Sonya and Kenon - will be.



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Hello! Please advise the camera for the salon "photo on documents". Can be used. Thank you in advance. Took a sample from friends Fujifilm Finepix S2500HD, terrible photos turn out ...


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