[X]Assistant

[Cojkoo]

Hello everyone, I want to buy a mirrorless camera. The choice fell on this type due to its smaller size and weight compared with a SLR camera.
Mainly interested in shooting photos, videos are not particularly.
I rented for myself, no commerce. Attracting such genres as: street, night, architecture, landscapes, macro, but the shooting of portraits is not particularly like.
I work in the Adobe Lightroom editor and Adobe Photoshop, so I prefer RAW files.
I also want the price of optics to be adequate.

The cost of 50000-55000 rubles (of course the cheaper, the better), with the lens.
Here is what looked after:
- Sony Alpha 6000 (model 2014, a small price around 35k, kind of like expensive optics, but the model says successful)
- Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX80, saw this unit on the sitechip.dethere is the first in the price / quality section (a fresh model, the price is about 45k, post-focus, confusing micro 4/3 matrix)
- Fujifilm x-t10 (I don’t know much about this device, it just often flashes as a competitor to the Sony Alpha 6000)
- Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II (also flashes as a competitor Sony Alpha 6000, confusing 4/3 matrix, but at the same time there is a stabilizer in the camera itself, by the way, just now I saw Mark III already released)

What conclusions did for yourself:
Sony Alpha 6000 is a cool model, inexpensive (35000r), but expensive optics are already outdated
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX80 - a fresh machine, the average price (45000r), confusing matrix 4/3
Fujifilm x-t10 - expensive about 55000r (x-t20 is already possible very close by price), a large matrix, a cool look :), poor ergonomics
Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II - relatively fresh model, inexpensive (35000r),hugeplus it is 5 axial stabilization, again the size of the sensor is 4/3 and it is not clear what is with optics.


Now there is a Samsung NX300 with a 20-50 lens, so I don’t know if the game will be worth the candle at all? Or will I get about the same?
If the differences are not significant, is it worth it to run while with this camera, and dig for something more serious? (like the Sony Alpha 6500)
Any opinions will be interesting, thanks.
: thank_you:

Post has been editedCojkoo - 31.10.17, 18:17

[ivanlabuda]

Cojkoo
And what does not like the existing one?

[Cojkoo]

ivanlabuda
The reasons:
- The camera is not mine, they gave me a drive :)
- Naughty autofocus, it can never catch on and always flies. The so-called focus hunting.
- Very long processing time. For example, a snapshot with a shutter speed of 30 seconds will process the same 30 seconds, totaling a minute. Any other short shutter speed shot is about 2 seconds. Various cards tried, formatted them, different classes - all the same.
- On night photos with exposure, individual pixels of red, green, blue and white colors often come out. And at low and high ISO. (I know that everything corrects in Lightroom, but unpleasantly)
- Model 2013, I want something fresher already.
Of course, I can come up with several reasons, but the main course is the first one.

I watched a lot of reviews, I liked the M10 Mark II, M10 Mark III and X-T20

[ivanlabuda]

Cojkoo @ 11/01/17, 14:04

like the M10 Mark II, M10 Mark III and X-T20

Estimate the ergonomics and dimensions.

AF optics on m4 / 3 are on average cheaper and their choice is more than on a fuj.
In the Olympus stab in the carcass (no need to look for stabilized glass).
The rawness of raw materials in fujja is noticeably better. Noise at high ISO (1600-3200) and less in the shadows. As for color, everyone says it is better to see examples for yourself.
The grip of the cameras (all listed) can be fixed with a removable handle with ali, prices - from 800 rubles. Look for "quick release L-plate".

Something like this.

[merkantos]

I have always been for Sonya. Yes, expensive optics, but if you plant a Minoltovskiy through an adapter, you can get very interesting results without much investment. It is a pity that they scored on type A bayonet.

[ivanlabuda]

merkantos
The current budget Sonya equipped with a very very dull lens 16-50 PZ. And something more decent immediately goes beyond the specified budget.

[Cojkoo]

ivanlabudaThanks for the tips. Already I would have taken the M10 Mark II or III, but the size of the matrix confuses me greatly. In the first night, it will be clearly worse than the APS-C, in the second it is the cropping factor 2 (that is, you can’t put a normal shirk, as an example), but at the same time, I like the presence of stabilization in the carcass and the price of 35k, which is of course very nice . (But the size of the matrix confuses more).

But FUJIFILM likes it much more externally, the matrix of another class, the camera itself, as I understand it, is a little higher class.

The purchase is not particularly burning, trying to understand what is best to take. I take the camera not for one year, so I want something of high quality.

[ivanlabuda]

Cojkoo
If you intend to shoot a lot with a lack of lighting - I think x-t20 in a whale withxf18-55would be the best solution. AF speed does not reach the DSLR, but it does not slow down too much.
xc16-50it is also good and much cheaper, but it has a smaller aperture (3.5-5.6 vs. 2.8-4), it is slower than the AF and it’s scary to shoot in the cold, for plastic.

UPD: Kit c 18-55 is also not included in your budget.

Post has been editedivanlabuda - 01.11.17, 15:07

[Cojkoo]

ivanlabudaYes, but as long as the purchase is not burning, there is an opportunity to dig up. Total: 60k (from 16-50) and 71k (from 18-55).
Well, you know, as usual, you start at one price, and you end up completely different.

I understand that 18-55 is more universal and preferable than 16-50? At 2.8, the idea is already no, but there is a side.

And maybe in this budget is already something better to eat? : thank_you:

By the way, on the market in one price options:XF18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS, or XC16-50mm F3.5-5.6 OIS II and XC50-230mm F4.5-6.7 OIS

Post has been editedCojkoo - 01.11.17, 17:56

[ivanlabuda]

Cojkoo @ 11/01/17, 18:26

I understand that 18-55 is more universal and preferable than 16-50? At 2.8, the idea is already no, but there is a side.

On a scope they are close. On the X-T, it will be more convenient to 18-55 - due to the presence of the stabilizer switch and the diaphragm setting ring - auto or a specific value.
There are no 16-50 switches, if you take it - the second version is better, there is MDF from 15 cm (from the first one - from 40).
Well, the depth of field, yes. Although there will be no special bokeh on 55/4, and on 18/2. 8 there will be distortions of perspective from a wide angle. Usually for such things apply "bright" fixes.

Cojkoo @ 11/01/17, 18:26

And maybe in this budget is already something better to eat?

It depends on what is best to consider, everyone has different criteria.
I somehow counted the cost of a set of glasses for my tasks. It turned out to be the cheapest under the Nikon DSLR.

Cojkoo @ 11/01/17, 18:26

By the way, on the market in one price options

If you need long focal lengths - take a double kit.
xc50-230 is considered by many to be better than xf55-200 (in my opinion, rightly so).

Post has been editedivanlabuda - 01.11.17, 19:03

[Cojkoo]

[email protected], 18:26

It depends on what is best to consider, everyone has different criteria.
I somehow counted the cost of a set of glasses for my tasks. It turned out to be the cheapest under the Nikon DSLR.

Yes, now I looked at Nikon F lenses:
1. There are a lot of them
2. There are a lot of them on sale.
3. Very good prices
Sadness sad

But I still don’t want a DSLR, there are a lot of examples when people just don’t take / pull a camera because of its size and weight. Yes, and I think FUJIFILM lenses are worthy of my money.



Post has been editedCojkoo - 01.11.17, 22:29

[Nihiluum]

Cojkoo @ 10/31/17, 13:57

What conclusions did for yourself:
Sony Alpha 6000 is a cool model, inexpensive (35000r), but expensive optics are already outdated

you go or checkered? From the fact that the model in 2014, she did not become worse fotkat. Many just take it now because of the quality, functionality and speed compared to other models for the same price.

[Cojkoo]

Nihiluum @ 02.11.17, 14:57

you go or checkered? From the fact that the model in 2014, she did not become worse fotkat. Many just take it now because of the quality, functionality and speed compared to other models for the same price.

I have both :)
I agree, I didn’t get any worse, but internally I have a contradiction about the 4-year-old camera (almost), and if I’m still not taking it for one year.
Plus I read that the whale 16-50 is not very special and you will have to buy something more decently, and this is still money.
I have a very good attitude towards Sony, in my dreams I have their top 7 mirrorless mirror series.

So far the question has ripened:
Should I even consider such models asPanasonic Lumix DMC-GX80, Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II, Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III(I'm on the question of the size of the matrix, here it is Micro 4/3)
The first in several reviews hangs like a top budget in terms of price / quality ratio, and the other two well-proven models with an internal stabilizer.

[Nihiluum]

Cojkoo @ 03.11.17, 15:19

Plus I read that the whale 16-50 is not very special and you will have to buy something more decently, and this is still money.

Any whale is by definition not very good and serves more to get acquainted with the camera. In the future, all the same, go to the prime lens. In addition, you can not buy Sony lenses, and buy for example more budget sigma \ tamrony which for their price and quality just tear the originals.

Cojkoo @ 03.11.17, 15:19

So far the question has ripened:
Should I even consider such models as the Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX80, the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II, the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III (I have to say about the size of the matrix, here it is Micro 4/3)

I took sony because of their fast hybrid autofocus and 1.5 crop. Olympus has more premium case materials, a sensor and other goodies, but with how for me sony still leads in terms of price / quality.

[Cojkoo]

Nihiluum @ 03.11.17, 18:21

Any whale is by definition not very good and serves more to get acquainted with the camera.

Well forFujiFilm X-T20There is a kit 18-55mm F2.8-4.0 R LM OIS, according to reviews very high quality optics. It costs ~ 70,000 rubles with this lens. If we assume that the Sony Alpha 6000 costs 35,000 rubles, then we need to purchase a less or less lens, which we have: (lenses with variable focal length)

Totally at about the same price, we get a new model, 4K video, a touchscreen display, lighter weight, according to many reviews it is easier to draw a picture in RAW, less noise at the same ISO, more frames in continuous shooting, a microphone input, more AF sensors, a better viewfinder.

In favor of the sony alpha 6000: perhaps a slightly lower price, bracketing 5 steps, the presence of NFC.
If not right - correct.

Post has been editedCojkoo - 04.11.17, 13:14

[Nihiluum]

Cojkoo @ 04.11.17, 13:08

If we assume that the Sony Alpha 6000 costs 35,000 rubles, then we need to purchase a less or less lens, which we have: (lenses with variable focal length)
пїЅ#

Ehhm ... Firstly, on pikch you presented telephones from Sony (Fuji has a typical kit 16-56), which in itself is not cheap from any manufacturer. Secondly, it will be more logical to look at the prices of both cameras for the “Body-bundle” on the Yandex Market and see that the minimum price for a carcass from Fuji is ~ 51000, while Sony has ~ 31000 (Moscow region). So decide - Do you need 4k and a sensor with a difference of 20k. Needless to say, Fuji is more modern, due to the 3-year difference between the cameras ... another thing is what you expect from the camera as a whole. Maybe this purchase is purely for reference and then you will want to switch to something more interesting)
PS If you look at fuji, then compare it with the Sony a6300. It is just very close in price and performance.

Post has been editedNihiluum - 04.11.17, 14:05

[Cojkoo]

Nihiluum,
Here, for example, we put: Sony E mount, variable focal length, up to 50,000 rubles, there is nothing even like that with 18-55mm F2.8-4.0 R LM OIS.

Nihiluum @ 04.11.17, 13:49

Secondly, it will be more logical to look at the prices of both cameras for "Body-bundling"

And why is it more logical if, for example, in FUJI, a normal whale lens will be bundled cheaper.
For example, 70,000 rubles will be bundled with it, and if taken separately it will be BODY 51,000 rubles + 46,000 rubles for the lens (did not take into account the cheapest store offer with 126 reviews) = 97,000 rubles.
Total: 70,000 rubles, against 97,000 rubles.

You do not think, I do not say that this model is bad, I try to objectively approach the matter. Just for 35,000 rubles to take with no whale, and what else to buy? There are no decent lenses with variable focal lengths up to 50,000 rubles at all.
Here about fixes there everything is better, for example the sameSony 50mm f / 1.8 OSS (SEL-50F18)for 18,000 rubles,Sigma 30mm f / 1.4 DC DN Contemporary Sony Efor 22,000 rubles,Sony FE 28mm f / 2for 28,000 rubles.

Nihiluum @ 04.11.17, 13:49

So decide if you need 4k and a sensor with a difference of 20k

Well, not only that, but also:

touch display, lower weight, in many reviews it is easier to draw a picture in RAW, less noise at the same ISO, more frames in continuous shooting, a microphone input, more AF sensors, better viewfinder.

Nihiluum @ 04.11.17, 13:49

PS If you look at fuji, then compare it with the Sony a6300. It is just very close in price and performance.

I agree. What I do :)

Post has been editedCojkoo - 04.11.17, 14:08

[Nihiluum]

Cojkoo @ 04.11.17, 14:06

And why is it more logical if, for example, in FUJI, a normal whale lens will be bundled cheaper.

Because you take a camera with interchangeable lenses. It is foolish to consider the purchase of such devices based on the price of whales .. You need to look at the lens park and what is closer to you. : D

Cojkoo @ 04.11.17, 14:06

Here, for example, we put: Sony E mount, variable focal length, up to 50,000 rubles, there is nothing even like that with 18-55mm F2.8-4.0 R LM OIS.

The concept of "variable focal length" is very extensible: D it especially concerns the price.

Cojkoo @ 04.11.17, 14:06

There are no decent lenses with variable focal lengths up to 50,000 rubles at all.

Well, duck, you can not take the lens from Sony. There the choice is huge, for a very affordable price.

Post has been editedNihiluum - 04.11.17, 14:15

[Cojkoo]

Nihiluum @ 04.11.17, 14:14

Well, duck, you can not take the lens from Sony. There the choice is huge, for a very affordable price.

I put on the Yandex marketSony e mountand watched lenses of all manufacturers. Or are you talking about adapters? Enlighten :)

[Nihiluum]

Cojkoo @ 04.11.17, 14:18

I put on the Sony E mount market on Yandex and watched lenses of all manufacturers. Or are you talking about adapters? Enlighten

Sony does not have a very large selection of e-mount objects for your needs). I say, if you are going to use this or that system for more than one year and plan to invest money in it (it doesn’t matter if it’s a hobby or making money), and don’t end your way to the whale, then learn all the features and nuances for yourself, so as not to regret later about the purchase and spent finances). The cameras then become obsolete and change, but the lenses remain: D

Post has been editedNihiluum - 04.11.17, 14:29